Peer group networks are a potentially great way for executives to learn from others. The Boardroom sits down with Executives' Global Network (EGN) Managing Director and Co-Founder for Singapore, Nick Jonsson, to talk about this. Surprisingly, we ended up learning from Nick (pictured) about how COVID has changed our ways of working and how executive loneliness must finally be addressed.
It's been 30 years since EGN was launched as a peer group and I love the story about how it started as a peer group for finance managers. What are the overall trends in EGN today and what has been the feedback that members have given?
Well, in general, we can see an up-taking trend in recent years, especially since COVID came, which escalated that. It was already starting to become a more popular way of knowledge-sharing because we’re living in a world where there's so many changes driven by digital transformation or disruption. And with all these changes in companies, leaders simply cannot work in silos anymore. They cannot just sit inside a company day-in, day-out and make changes based on what they think and what they know or what they learned through their education or reading in newspapers or magazines. They need to be connected to
other senior leaders and to learn from each other. So that has been an up-taking trend. It really then escalated during COVID because so many companies then went into crisis mode, or the business was going through the roof. How do you adjust and be agile quickly? Well, it is by learning from others. You cannot reinvent the wheel at every turn.
People work hybrid now. With EGN, you offer a yearly membership and access to events. How does a busy member get access to these if times are tough that they're travelling or piled on with busy schedules?
In all our markets there’s some event happening almost every day and there's one happening in Singapore, for example, right now for executive leaders. There are 14 leaders meeting around the table with a facilitator. The whole thing here is that it's about planning for your events. We basically have each peer group meeting six times a year for four hours. These sessions are scheduled one year in advance so you can have it in the calendar before all your travels and so on. Therefore, you can try to plan around that. The only way you can get a big group of senior leaders around the table is by planning it and locking it in the calendar and agreeing that “We’re going to meet on that date in one year from now, so let's avoid travelling on that day”. Of course, emergencies come up and there's things that pop up that make you not be able to make that session but what we do at EGN then is that we offer an alternative session to that member. So that means that, if it happens, you join another peer group a few days later or when you come back. So, there will always be a few guest members in each session.
When they miss events, do you think the idea of catching up with sessions on-demand is a good idea and is that something that you practise?
Ideally, you should join in your own peer group because everyone’s there. I'm making sure there's no competitors. Everyone signs a non-disclosure agreement and when we have a few members joining another peer group we still need to do to a check-in. We check-in with the chair of the group, we check in with the members to make sure there's no competitor and, yeah, the NDA still applies so we have to be very cautious of this. We have a member services team who works on this so there's a lot of administration around making this happen. But our promise is that if you join a peer group you get six sessions for half a day a year. So, if that’s three or four sessions with your own group or and one or two with another group at that is okay. But as many as possible with the same group because you also building trust by meeting the same people again.
Are the groups role-based or industry-based and what are your perceptions of each one?
So, it’s seniority-based rather than industry-based. There are so many networks that are based on industry. If you are working in the aeroplane industry you will have your associations there. If you are in hospitality you will have your hospitality associations and expos and so on. The people tend to have a pretty strong network already within the field but what many don't have is a cross-industry network. So that is what we do at EGN. What we see is that a lot of the learnings are coming from new industries. A lot of the out-of-the-box ideas are picked up by, you know, banks speaking to an FMCG company or a pharma company learning from a supply chain expert. So that is really what we're doing and it comes down to looking for the similarities instead of differences.
Executives in companies that are headquartered in Asia versus western multinationals, have different needs. What are the main trends you see or the differences between the two?
Yeah, so the culture is a big thing here. Especially in Asia what we see is that many of the bigger companies, let's say the Americans, European companies who station their senior executives in Asia, the mindset from the head office can be that “All Asian countries are the same”. They expect the laws, regulations, languages and everything to be the same, which we, on the ground in Asia, know is not the truth. So, it's very important for executives to manage upwards and to educate head office and their bosses that it's very different. India is different from Vietnam in every aspect, from the language to the HR laws to everything else. It’s educational process. But it's also for the executive to be humble and appreciate that it's very different, that they need to constantly, learn about all the different markets and one way to do that is indeed by joining the groups where you are discussing about the cultural differences, the legal differences. How to manage your staff in Myanmar versing in Cambodia, for example. And that is very, very important if you want to be able to adopt your culture. Because if you are a senior executive and you're flying around Asia and travelling to three or four different countries in a week, that could be very different cultures based on the countries themselves.
Asian executives who are in Asian companies probably feel that their culture is a lot more different it's there's a lot more command and control. Maybe companies are bit more patriarchal depending on you know whether the companies founded by a founder who still runs the business have you seen trends in Singapore that speak about how executives faced pressure from different types of companies and how do you help them you know in Singapore everything is really diverse so how do you help to target executives in specific types of companies like that.
So indeed, it is very different again in each market and the India is perhaps one of the most challenging countries. And what I've seen is that many big MNC's say “We are operating the same organisation chart in 220 countries. It's working but this for some reason doesn't work in India.” And they can be very puzzled and question themselves. What we are doing then is that we get the executive to put themselves in what we call one of our Advisory Board meetings. It's almost like they put themselves in a ‘hot seat’ where the senior executive presents this as a case study do another group of 20 to 25 of our members and they explain: “This is how it works in all the other countries. This is how we’re experiencing it in India. What are we doing wrong?” And then these other executives sitting around the table can then question, give support and advice. And help them in the session to make it work out. So that's how we do it. There are no manuals here. There are no readings you can do to solve this thing. It has to be discussed around a table by people who have the experience. And who can then adapt the culture of an American company, for example and make it work in India. Normally, there are some moving parts, some little things that then need to be addressed to make it work.
In EGN, what is the spread of your membership across the genders and, if it's imbalanced, how are you helping that?
So, as of now, about 24% of our members in Singapore are women. That is a pretty good number because the latest numbers I saw on women on [company] boards in Singapore I think was somewhere around 10%. So, we're doing pretty okay. I'm from Sweden myself where everyone is driving free equality and it should be as close to 50%. Well, sad to say that Singapore and Asia is lagging way behind. But what we have done is to have a ‘women-in-leadership’ peer group. So, if a woman wants to join EGN and they feel that they are not ready to join a mixed-gender peer group, it is almost like the landing platform where they can practise their vulnerability and being in a group among other female leaders to share their challenges and so on. And then we will help to migrate them over to a mixed group once they are ready for that. And by doing, by getting confidence here in a peer network, hopefully they have the confidence also to move forward and higher up the work hierarchy in their field.
I like the fact that it's not just seniority-based groups but you have groups that can also be gender-specific to cater for certain topics pertinent to the gender.
Yes, we do have that and that's on-demand from the members themselves. And we always say that we see ourselves as administrators. So, whatever the members want, that's what we’re going to give them, and we make sure that happens.
We've seen in the last few years the rise of the Me Too movement. I feel male executives have a trepidation in that they want to be leaders and mentor young mentees who happened to be female. How is it being tackled if it is a trend for male members?
I think being loud or having a statement and standing for something can always backfire and you might get bashed on social media and so on, especially if you’re posting your views. But that's a part of being a leader, right? Again, a leader who wants to make a stand probably would be better off to talk to a consultant or an expert in the field. Or you test your ideas in a confidential setting like a peer group before you go out with them and before you put yourself in the spotlight. Because things can go viral very quickly especially if it's something bad or negative news. My recommendation is just ‘go slow’ and discuss it with someone before you take a stance.
Leaders and executives are grappling with hybrid work versus full time work in the office and you know these things can create a backlash if the executives. So I guess peer groups can be a good almost like a social or leadership laboratory to test and decide to get to get wide opinions before-hand?
Yes, indeed. And that's the biggest conversation we had in EGN for the last year and we in fact this so many discussions around this and we're seeing companies failing and also who are making it right. We even have created a separate discussion forum and we haven't Indian mobile apple members universe where our members can discuss. We have currently 207 of our members in Singapore discussing this because it's all about you know recruiting retaining and growing your talent. But having this stuff coming back to the office when they don't want to, for example, can have huge implications to the whole future of your company. And again, it’s not about you as a leader implementing what you think is right, but why not discuss and learn from you know hundreds of other companies and see what they're doing that is working. It’s about best practices.
Is employee mental wellness something that members are asking about or sharing and what's your thoughts on how can peer group networks help?
Well, this is a topic I’m passionate about. I wrote a book ‘Executive Loneliness’ a year and a half ago where I interviewed senior executives about their mental health and their employees’ mental health. Of course, with COVID this is also escalated this conversation. But still, it’s a topic that is full of stigma. Senior executives are naturally all scared to admit that perhaps they are stressed or close to burnout or if they are depressed. They worry that, you know, the bosses or HR will perhaps then not give them the next opportunity when it comes up because they worry they’re going to break. That is changing a little bit, thanks to COVID. That it’s a bit more okay to say that we're not okay. And this is wonderful. I've been one of the spokespersons here, sharing that through my book and in the media as well, encouraging senior leaders to raise their hand when they’re not okay. Internally in EGN, we have a rule that you can put on the brakes when you feel that you're not in the best shape and, let's say, things are moving too fast. You can put on the brakes and share this to your colleagues. And that just means that we need some space for that moment. And I've done this myself several times in the last two years by leading by example, where I’ve told my team “Team, I’m not feeling well now. There's something happening; I have some personal issues”. You just don't feel that you can deliver your best and just having that inside the company as a rule – this makes a huge difference.
Can you share what you might be doing next, or can you tease our readers a little bit about what is a new innovation that you're working on within the industry?
Yeah, so while EGN has been in Singapore for 12 years, we moved to Indonesia this year and we’re just about to launch in Malaysia. So, it's really about connecting the territory. So while most of our members are regional heads based in Singapore, we have 750 of those members now. We also want to have members who are general directors or country directors in the markets. We’re going to connect all Southeast Asia here or APAC eventually also where members can talk cross-border on our mobile app or post a query. Whenever you have a challenge, you can post it to the members who are supporting each other. So, it's filling up this support network which you can have on your mobile phone on a day-to-day basis so that you shouldn't feel alone. You should feel connected and be vulnerable. Your natural ‘go-to’ should not be to go to Google and get a random answer but supporting each other and building a network for that.
Can members who move around because they are expats and go from country to country, maintain their membership and join something in the local country halfway through a year?
Yes, they can. And a lot of the meet-ups that are happening are also in a one-by-one basis because they met we can make connections online and, you know, they post a query saying “I'm coming to Bangkok next week I would like to meet some people who are experts in diversity and inclusion” or “I need to figure out something related to HR laws”. They can post a query and then they can arrange their own meet-up. It can be over lunch or coffee, but they can also meet somewhere during our formal events. We have closed sessions, but we also have open sessions. A lot of the open sessions are basically open for members from other countries as well.
Editor's Note: To know more about Nick Jonsson's book, read TBR's review of it here.